meanwhile the Planning Commission is wanting to open up the 1101 Growth Plan. Watch the target to be 411 South to become Maryville all the way to the county line.

Turf wars indeed.

I tell you what. I won't transfer my problem to 411 S.

Regarding PPE, here's why it will get built:

Link...

100 wealthy future homeonwer and three or four wealthy investor families want it for easy access to their own little private nature preserve.

This is apparently a standard TDOT tactic. The Montvale Rd. "improvement" pitted two neighborhoods against one another with the proposed options. This forced a compromise of doing something while leaving the "do nothing" option off of the table.

The traffic situation in this county is peanuts compared to the larger sprawling, southern cities such as Atlanta and Nashville. We are blessed with the status quo.

I admire and respect CAPPE'S tireless efforts against so-called progressive transporation solutions, but I hate to see it get sucked into the neighbor-as-adversary game.

Bizzgirl, this Alcoa By-pass was decided upon several years back by the powers-that-be because of the urging of a group of businessmen on Alcoa Highway. I can't remember the name of the Association that they had formed, but essentially, it was those who owned the Motor Mile Dealerships if memory serves. I think the other option was to build a couple of roads on either side from which you could access the businesses while making Alcoa Highway of much more limited access. I thought that was a good plan, but those businesses fought it off. The story was well-covered in the Daily Times. I remember it, because I was p.o.ed at the time that TDOT would respond better to commercial concerns than to the residents and farmers along the PPE route. My only solace is that they will get what they deserve: if TDOT by-passes Alcoa Highway, it ain't going to be too good for business.

So, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is sort of already in the works. UT's Dairy Farm was going to be disturbed by the project, which led them to purchase the farm at the corner of Old Walland Highway and Ellejoy Road (near River Ford) a couple of years back.

So CAPPE may be have formed their statement around a foregone conclusion, rather than thrown that area under a metaphorical bus to save themselves.

Bizgrrl and I went to the TDOT public hearing on the project. From the old blog, July 2, 2004...

Public participation: how it works
7/2/2004 7:56:00 AM

Matt Edens has an interesting article in Metro Pulse about public participation in local government. He talks about the problem of apathy and has some ideas for cures.

The reason there is public apathy is because the public doesn't feel like anybody listens to them. And many times they are right.

Here's a case in point. TDOT held a "public input" meeting on a proposed Alcoa highway bypass project in Blount County. This project will bypass about three miles of U.S. 129/Alcoa Highway between the dangerous intersection at Singleton Station Road, past the airport, to Hunt Road. The new "parkway" will be a winding 5.5 mile stretch of six lane highway. The intent is to relieve traffic on this "heavily congested" stretch of Alcoa Highway.

A previous plan to widen Alcoa Highway, build frontage roads and turn lanes, improve dangerous intersections, and install traffic signals was rejected. Why? Because the Airport Motor Mile Association and other businesses along the route felt it would disrupt their business during construction. And no politician wants traffic signals on Alcoa Highway.

So instead, TDOT is proposing a $100 million (!) project to build 5.5 miles of road that will channelize a mile-long stretch of creek bed and destroy the associated riparian habitat, require three bridges to cross the creek three times (instead of taking a straight line that would have only crossed the creek once but put the route through a future EPA Supersite at an Alcoa toxic waste dump that nobody wants to dig up or even talk about), eliminate Pine Lakes Golf Course, and take several other homes and businesses. Oh, yeah. It will also open up several large tracts of vacant land for commercial development (and increased tax revenues for the City of Alcoa).

They had a nice PowerPoint slide show explaining the "process". The summary bullet points went something like:

• Feasibility study, planning and design
• Environmental impact study
• Public hearing <-- You Are Here
• Right of way acquisition
• Construction

The meeting was the public's only opportunity to provide input for the "No-Build" v. "Build" alternatives, and comment on the four (or five?) proposed "Build" alternatives which differed only slightly with respect to some of the interchanges.

The reality is that a "preferred" alternative has already been selected, the project is already funded, and construction is already scheduled.

We have unfortunately not been paying much attention to this $100 million project. We went to the meeting mainly to see the maps and what was going to happen because we live near one of the affected interchanges.

There were about 100 people at the meeting. Mrs. Bubba asked for a show of hands, and about half were concerned residents. The rest were business people or government employees.

TDOT officials and their private engineering firm consultants listened politely to the few who were actually prepared with facts and figures and good questions about the alternatives, the environmental impact, noise abatement, and so on. TDOT responded with boilerplate non-answers and moved to the next question.

They had a few copies of the 150 or so page environmental assessment available for review. It was some interesting reading. Unfortunately, they don't have it on the TDOT website, and weren't sure when it would be. Maybe in a few weeks they said. Hey, it takes about ten minutes to upload a PDF file. What's the big problem?

It is interesting, though, what you can find out talking to low-level TDOT employees in casual conversation "off the record". Such as one of them saying he has seen plans for commercial development on the site of the soon to be former Pine Lakes Golf Course, even though TDOT publicly says there are no official plans for it. Or another who said that improvements to Alcoa Highway itself would actually be a better, less expensive plan and involve significantly less environmental impact.

So basically, "public input" for a TDOT project is a farce. Comments are dutifully recorded by a court reporter, response forms are cheerfully handed out, and the bulldozers roll in.

To me, this is a pretty good example of why the public is apathetic about participation. Everything is all already arranged. "All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused."

OK, then.

Link...

A TDOT status report on these projects from Oct. 2006:

6. Alcoa Highway Bypass, Pellissippi Parkway and Alcoa Highway Project Update
Presenter: Mike Russell, TDOT
Item Summary: An update on these projects will be provided by TDOT.
Background: TDOT last provided a status report on these projects at the March 23, 2006 Executive Board meeting.
Minutes - TPO Executive Board – October 25, 2006 4

Mike Russell, Project Manager from TDOT for the Alcoa Highway Bypass, stated that TDOT has asked a consultant to look at another alternative that would move the alignment further north to avoid the University of Tennessee Agricultural Experimental Station at Singleton Station Road.

TDOT’s environmental office will work with the consultant and will also meet with the Airport Authority to ensure it does not conflict with their plans. The timeline may be a year away from beginning the project.
TDOT is negotiating with a consultant about traffic counts and Origin and Destination numbers for the Pellissippi Parkway extension. They will begin charettes next year.

Concerning Alcoa Highway, TDOT has been waiting for a response from TVA. The TDOT environmental office is also working with the Marine Station for a land swap and will be conducting public meetings as the next step.

Larry Waters stated that Sevier County Transportation Board discussed plans for an extension from Pigeon Forge to McGhee Tyson Airport. They have submitted this request to Commissioner Nicely for future consideration to improve better access to the airport from Sevier County.

Eddy Ford asked when motorists will be able to go from Pellissippi Parkway to Townsend without going through Maryville. Mike Russell stated that TDOT is currently in the Environmental phase and conducting the NEPA process. This should take another two to three years. Then the Design phase of the project should take one year.

After Design, ROW should take 12 to 18 months. The project is funded through the right-of-way part only. It may be seven years or so to get to the construction phase.

There has been little if any public opposition to the Alcoa By-Pass and it has sailed along within the TDOT planning process. The project has little "dangerous" opposition and much support from The Powers That Be. it makes sense to me that people who have succeeded in halting TDOT in their tracks for seven years about the PPE might reasonably suggest that diminishing funds be allocated to the Alcoa By-Pass instead of to opening up NE Blount County to all that will follow the completion of the PPE.

Ragarding the R & D Park and the PPE, the developers have hired a land planning firm to help them design the park and instructed that group to plan both with and without the PPE, so they obviously do not think the PPE is necessary for the Park. Some of them privately admit that the idea of an interstate through the park does seem a bit odd. They park developers are on a tighter timeline than can be accomodated by TDOT's Environmental Impact Statement timetable, so they are going to have to start work without knowing for sure what is going to happen, or when.

As noted by R in an earlier comment, approx. 50 people attended the 2004 meeting to protest the new bypass. I do not believe there has been a meeting since then.

I had heard that the bypass was on the back burner and there were doubts it would ever happen. In my research today (note: I am not the best at research), I have not found any definitive Alcoa Hwy bypass project with TDOT or the City of Alcoa. I did find a list of Alcoa local projects on the TDOT web site for a bypass with no estimated start date. I did find a long range plan from the Knoxville Regional Transportation Planning Organization with a bypass project planned for 2014. Nothing definite anywhere though. Oh, and the same lrp has a 2020 plan to 4-lane Maryville Hwy (Old Knoxville Hwy) from Hunt Road to the Knox County line.

There is a lot more definitive information about the PPE happening in a lot more places than there is about a bypass. I, again, think the bypass project is being used by CAPPE and maybe others to stop the PPE.

Some of them privately admit that the idea of an interstate through the park does seem a bit odd.

Again, the I-140 extension was in the plans long before the R&D park.

What I find absolutely amazingly stupid about any Highway, By-Pass, Interstate expansion programme, is the FACT that as Gasoline Prices sky-rocket, the need for paved roads of any type diminish. How many of us here have increased our driving habits over the past 7 years? Very few, I'd imagine. Misguided priorities. Gasoline will never get cheaper. Michigan will never produce any alternative fuel vehicles (noticed this latest Ethanol Hype? it requires the use of Gasoline-=-can't burn pure ethanol). If our Blount County leaders cared about the future of our area at all, they'd be looking into getting us a Light Passenger Rail system going.

viva Evo Morales

the FACT that as Gasoline Prices sky-rocket, the need for paved roads of any type diminish.

Good point.

Light Passenger Rail system

Doubt this will happen any time soon. However, Blount to Knox definitely needs a public transportation system. Maybe just vans for specific businesses or destinations.

BizGrrl:

Don't you think CSX would willingly share ?their? line with our Passenger Line?

viva Evo Morales

CAPPE had as its speaker at its 2006 annual meeting the head of the Knoxville Area Transit Authority for the specific purpose of learning about how decisions are made to fund rail and bus systems. Federal funding formulas are the key factor and residential density is a major component. Blount County is not even close to the residential density needed to get light rail money. The irony is that we have to wait to become urban in order to avoid becoming sprawled to death.

If TDOT has a meeting and forty people object to something and nobody does anything else (organize and maybe even sue), TDOT has a blank check to proceed.

The most recent prioritization of area road projects by the Knoxville Regional Transportation Planning Organization (TPO) has the Alcoa Parkway listed ahead of the PPE. CAPPE has no influence with the TPO.

CAPPE = Citizens Against the Pellissippi Parkway Extension

PPE = Pellissippi Parkway Extension (from Old Knoxville Highway to US 321)

First and foremost, IMO CAPPE is not trying to support another road project to derail the PPE. What CAPPE is referring to (IMO again) is the assertion from TDOT that the level of service (LOS) (which is a "scientific" way of evaluating the safety of a road by traffic counts, accidents, sight clearance, etc.) for certain roads that will be positively impacted by the continuation of the PPE (Alcoa Highway, Washington Avenue, US 321) will be helped by buidling the PPE. Level of Service for roads are given a letter grade from A (best) to F (worse). Less cars on Alcoa Highway, US 321, etc., due to the PPE makes justifying the PPE OK in engineers eyes. But the fact is these roads have a poor LOS already and the PPE will do nothing to improve them. Hence the engineering arguement is out the door. So what CAPPE is saying (IMO) is that there is an Alcoa By_pass plan and a Montvale Road improvement plan on the books (and in the local planning projects) that will do more to improve the LOS on these roads than the PPE. Building the PPE will not help local traffic circulation in the area - period. As noted before, this interstate will be to serve the few and mighty that live in Walland and ex-governors and TDOT commissioners that live in Townsend (yes, Sundquist and Saltzman).

About the Alcoa By-Pass thingy - I attended that meeting and I argued that nowhere in the Environmental Assessment was there an option to improve Alcoa Highway. the choices were build the by-pass or leave Alcoa Highway as is. What's screwed is the fact that TDOT said they could make Alcoa Highway a limited access highway (which means having exits to a service road) for $50 million (half less than building a new road). Business leaders were screaming that the limited access would hinder their business but creating a new road and making Alcoa Highway a lovely boulevard would help business. Hopefully TDOT is rethinking this horrible thinking.

BeyondLeft asked: Do you mean if no one organizes or sues The TN Dept. of Trans., then the Dept. goes ahead with their plans, regardless of the number of voices of protest they hear?

IMO, the answer to that is yes. TDOT's job historically has been to ask Chambers of Commerce and their political
"leaders" what they need. The answer, of course, is "more roads." Then TDOT delivers the roads and claims that the "need" has been legitimately established because the Powers That Be are assumed to represent "the people." I do not see evidence that this is any less true in the post-Sundquist era than it was, but TDOT has gotten better manners and pays slightly more attention to what the law says (having been sued and only then deciding to follow the law by doing an Environmental Impact Statement instead of an Environmental Assessment).

The head of the Blount County Chamber of Commerce testified in public (at a session that was part of a "study" of the PPE done by UT)that CAPPE had engaged in an "undemocratic" act by "resorting to the courts" instead of just letting the state ignore the law (and trusting the Chamber, a voluntary and private membership organization, to represent the community).

This Chamber of Commerce action makes sense when you look at the people they have now and have had in the past on their "Transportation Committee." That is, the Committee that advocates for new roads...

The head of the Blount County Chamber of Commerce testified in public (at a session that was part of a "study" of the PPE done by UT)that CAPPE had engaged in an "undemocratic" act by "resorting to the courts" instead of just letting the state ignore the law (and trusting the Chamber, a voluntary and private membership organization, to represent the community).

Again (and I appreciate BizzGrrl's comments on this), I don't understand why one would need more roads when folks are driving less often and to fewer places. It's reverse logic. When there is less traffic, there should be less demand for new roads. Automobile Fuel prices will never go down again (this current Federal Texo-based Regime has made certain of that, by ticking off every OPEC Nation on the Planet), so an argument that when fuel prices come down, we'd need the new roads--is a myth and moot point. Therefore, based on Facts and Reality, the only reason I can think of, that we'd need new roads, is if Pavement Contractors, who are used to constant income from Federal, State, and Local coffers; want more from the till. How that would serve the general populace here in the county, is beyond me. Maybe someone else here, could illuminate a better reason for more roads in Blount County.

You must work for the chamber of commerce or be a member. Do you live in Blount County? TDOTs own documentation for the environmental assessment states that the Level of Service for the roads that are currently used (versus building the PPE) would not be improved. These roads, Alocoa Highway, Washington Street, US 321 have their own traffic dynamics. Most of the traffic on Alcoa Highway is commuter traffic and a vast majority exit onto the 129 bypass. Most traffic on US 321 goes from Lenoir City to Townsend. The two roads are heavily used and diverting a small amount of traffic by building a brand new, expensive road will not alleviate that traffic. In fact, Washington Street, the road between Alcoa Highway and US 321, is hardly ever crowded. I rarely have to wait for two turns of a traffic light unless people are dropping kids off at school. And, in fact, more people will be using US 411 if the PPE is completed than there is now. Just think of all the commuter traffic coming from the Montvale Road area that will go to 321, turn onto Washington Street, then turn down US 411 to get to the PPE. And the PPE will bring more development, which will mean more traffic, which means the existing streets will be more dangerous. If you want to address the "dangerous back roads" then we should make those back roads wider and safer before we build an interstate style highway that will actually increase traffic on those "dengerous back roads".

The original intent of the Pellissippi Parkway was to connect Alcoa Highway to I-40. Back when this plan was envisioned West Knoxville was stopping at Westtown Mall. This new Knoxville Center you speak of Bizzgrl was not around when the original intent of the road was envisioned. Developers and politicians want this road built so more open space is easily accessible and a few people won't be inconvenienced by having to drive an extra 10 minutes through Maryville.

The Pellissippi Parkway is not a gateway road into the Smokies. US 321, Chapman Highway, and Highway 66 serve most of the traffic from the north, south, east and west. Extending the PPE will serve Knoxville residents who don't want to bother driving through Maryville.

So please Bizzgrl, whose vision is it you are supporting? Blount Countians have continually said they want to preserve the rural character of our lovely county. We are working hard to have smart development. The PPE will not only bring development to rural areas it will change the face of US 321. An intersate intersecting with a major federal highway will bring service stations, retail boxes, and other businesses that will muck up the gorgeous view from the now uincluttered road. And I will save you from all of the environmental impacts building a new road will create.

In my opinion, if the feds and state want to do some real traffic planning they should focus on making SR 33, US 411, and Alcoa Highway better, safer roads before they even consider building the PPE.

So, Bizzgrl, we are not pitting on bad project versus another. IMO Alcoa Highway needs improving much more than building a PPE. Whether it be reconfiguring the existing Alcoa Highway or a new Alcoa By-Pass, that road, I'll killya hihgway, needs improvements much worse than building the PPE. Building the PPE will NOT make Alcoa Highway safer.

So keep your vision to yourself. It's not everyone's vision - OK?

I think I'm in love.... ;)

So keep your vision to yourself. It's not everyone's vision - OK?

That works both ways.

Anyway, I'm not exactly sure what point bizgrrl is trying to make. She's not here or I would ask her. But a couple of things.

You missed the last part. "Don't pit one bad project against another." That was the starting point for this, and was repeated here a second time.

It looks to me like that because there is some backlash against that original thought (objection to CAPPE saying AHBP would be a better project to spend money on), bizgrrl is simply trying to show that she can make make a similar agrument that, for good or ill, PPE is a better planned and thought out project. I don't think she's advocating for it, just making a point.

In fact, I won't speak for her but I've heard her say that what needs to be done is to fix Alcoa highway, force trucks off off Alcoa Highway around the dangerous Timberlake and Montlake and Singleton Station interections by way of I-140, encourage airport traffic to use the same route (signs currently point to 129/Alcoa Highway) fix some of these dangerous secondary roads, especially Sevierville Pike, and that she's not all that keen on having a straight shot for tourists to Townsend because it will turn into Pigeon Forge, and doesn't want to wipe out vast swaths of the countryside for either PPE or AHBP.

And she doesn't work for the Chamber of Commerce. But y'all are doing a pretty good job of divide and conquer, basically doing the GOB network's job for them. That's been a pretty effective tactic for local, state, and national politics for a couple of decades now.

So maybe everyone ought to back up, take a deep breath, and start over on how to fight both of these projects AND come up with some ideas for workable alternatives.

One other thing. She's done some checking around and I'm sure she will have more on this, but contrary to some status reports the Alcoa Highway Bypass is far from a done deal.

Could someone show on one single map where all these roads plans are projected?

I never use Alcoa highway unless I have to take someone to the airport so I can't really understand the issues with this.

Thanks.

One issue with Alcoa Highway is that lots of people die on it (including many friends of bizgrrl and her family) because there are too many intersections and accesses yet the traffic moves too fast because nobody wants to be delayed getting home from work or to the airport.

I still say roundabouts at Maloney Road and Singleton Station. Not sure what to do about Wright Road and Air Base Road. (Can you build a roundabout that big?) And probably another one at Louisville Road.

R. Neal is correct in his analysis of my post.

Mello, I will try to get a map or make up something for the proposed, not in the works, Alcoa Hwy bypass.

RE: Bypassing the bypasses for more bypasses.
I never understood exactly why they call the current "bypass" a bypass. I guess they are bypassing downtown Maryville. It has been there so long I can't remember how we used to get to the co-op.

Yes, I live in Blount County. I care about Blount County and all of East Tennessee. I also care about the City of Alcoa, the historical Springbrook neighborhood and park.

How many CAPPE or Raven's use the pellissippi? Or have they ever? Well that's just a starting point. The Southern Loop has been scraped by TDOT's meeting they had at the library 2 months ago. Only 4 citizens showed up and 3 were officials. So to be honest here, everyone has used the PPE sometime or another. As for the saving of 10 minutes driving through blount county. haha now thats funny. It's a shame but we all have to plan some extra time in waking up or driving somewhere or anything else in life. Not for or against the extension finishing. I doubt in my lifetime that it ever will be done to 321.

It's a shame but we all have to plan some extra time in waking up or driving somewhere or anything else in life.

That's a great point. One I have been making about Alcoa Hwy from Kingston Pike/Cumberland (Knox County) to the 129 bypass/Louisville Road intersection. I drive the speed limit on Alcoa Hwy 50 mph in some places, 55 mph in others, a 45 caution around Court South (Knox County). I am passed by almost every vehicle on the road. I discussed this with an acquaintance whose daughter was killed in the Court South area. He was very angry at Blount County drivers and how they have no concern for the people living in the neighborhoods along Alcoa Hwy.

And to note, many of these neighborhoods were there before Alcoa Hwy was even a four lane road. I know this for a fact, I lived in one.

Please, Blount County drivers, SLOW DOWN. You are endangering many people to save five minutes. Get started earlier or be five minutes late.

I may read and comment but as you have said and others, and going along with those statements, just stating what you think is true or right. It just so happens that alot of it is true but not to that extent. Sure we go to meetings and sit and listen and then complain on here or other blogs is not constructive critizism. I listen and research what someone says or writes to me. But to get bashed by you all the time is sad. It can't go the way you wanted the vote to go. It may be the right vote in your eyes and/or others but what the regualtions state is what you go by. So changing the regs is one way to correct any problems for the future. The old way is what created what you see now. But in 20-30 years is what the reasoning on the changes. Just tired of all the negative and bashing when you are trying to do whats right for the future not what you see now. Now is what was done many years ago. It took alot of people and thier hindsight in recent years to push forward what to protect and keep with what everyone likes here. So get off your soapbox now and keep less flies from the cowpatties that you are laying.

My spouse calls me a doom and gloomer for paying too much attention to what I am about to share, but I think it is appropriate to the discussion. Check out these websites:

http://www.kunstler.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ
http://www.theoildrum.com/

Kunstler is a longtime and articulate critic of our suburban adventure.The Oil Drum gets into the "Peak Oil" realm. You don't have to agree with all of this, but it will make you think about the futility of some of our efforts.

One of our Anonymouses wrote:
How many CAPPE or Raven's use the pellissippi? Or have they ever? Well that's just a starting point. The Southern Loop has been scraped by TDOT's meeting they had at the library 2 months ago.

What does whether someone uses the current Pellissippi Parkway have to do with whether the Extension is needed? If I supported the US involvement in World War II, does that mean I have to support Vietnam and the Iraq wars?

The Southern Loop is still on the TDOT and Knoxville TPO's long range plans, so if you want to think it is "scraped," help yourself, but it is not.

The Southern Loop proposal, which led to the formation of the Raven Society, was/is to continue the extension of the Pellissippi Parkway frpm US 321 around the southern part of the county to connect with US 129 somewhere near the Topside/129 intersection. See Link... and click on Map.

You people claim to be progressive. But you really aren’t.

The guy who said “why build more roads when fewer people are driving” is a moron. You apparently do not have an 8-5 job like the majority of us taxpayers do. People are driving more now, that’s why new/better roads are needed. It’s not rocket science.

The CAPE people are a bunch of nuts. They really are the monkey wrench in the gears of progress. Have you any idea how much traffic congestion would be alleviated if drivers from Walland, Townsend, and the entire western part of the county had a straight shot to Alcoa Highway without having to stop at every single traffic light in Maryville and Alcoa?

The Southern Loop would be wonderful. It was pointed out earlier that the most traffic on 321 is due to commuters traveling between Lenoir City and Townsend. Anyone actually has to drive to work in the mornings know that ALL the traffic on 411/129 is due to people trying to get to Knoxville. Have you ANY idea how ALL the congestion in Maryville/Alcoa would be alleviated if there was an interstate highway carrying traffic around the city?

What you folks need to wake up and realize is that the county has already grown and is still growing. The question is not to figure out how to return to yesterday. The question is to figure out how to deal with out problems today. Many of you falsely believe that interstate highways create traffic congestion. This is a bizarrely ignorant belief as we currently HAVE traffic congestion and HAVE NO interstate highway. You need to realize that interstates are good. Interstates do not create congestion, they alleviate congestion.

The only thing that would make the Southern Loop better is if the section of Alcoa Highway from Pellissippi Parkway to I-275 north in Knoxville was turned into an interstate highway as well.

It would be nice if you so-called progressives actually embraced progress.

Lester

Then what do you do? Do you pass a law denying any new businesses the ability to open up on 411S from the current city limits to the county line? Is this “freedom?”

You say, “The cities and the county need to do a better job TODAY of managing the traffic flow into, across, and out of the cities.” Could you be a little more vague? How do you get this done? How do you manage more traffic, more often without building better roads?

Don’t misconstrue what I’m saying, and no offense to that yokel guy but no one who complains about the Pellissippi expansion project and the infamous Southern Loop offers any solutions to the real problem of traffic congestion. Don’t just be critical, offer solutions. Such vague terms like controlling infrastructure growth and commercialization are big words and make you sound like you know what you are talking about but it doesn’t speak to the problem.

You people don’t want the Pellissippi expansion or the Southern Loop. Fine. But, at the same time, you will not offer any solutions to the problem. It is a fact that the Pellissippi expansion and the Southern Loop will fix current traffic problems and, if designed properly, will fix traffic problems into the future. The reason you do not support these two plans is because you do not believe they will be a permanent solution. Therefore, you are willing to do nothing now. What is frustrating to me is you cannot see just how insane that position really is.

We have a traffic congestion problem in Maryville and Alcoa. The only thing that solve traffic congestion problems is less traffic. A southern loop would take cars out of the cities of Maryville and Alcoa and put them on a freeway traveling around them. Thus, congestion in Maryville and Alcoa is reduced. It’s not rocket science.

You don’t want the southern loop. So what do you do? More traffic lights? Contrary to popular beliefs, stopping traffic does not help the flow. I have never arrived at where I was going quicker because I stopped more often.

You’ve got to deal with the traffic problem. Asking people to stay home is simply not an option.

Lester

We have a traffic congestion problem in Maryville and Alcoa.

Really? Where?

Seems to me like what we have is speeding, inconsiderate drivers, and expand at all cost government. I agree we don't need more traffic lights that make gas hogs sit and idle and waste gas and pollute the atmosphere. What we need is fewer cars, maybe some public transportation of some kind, and maybe some better designed existing roads. Alcoa Highway is a mess because it wants to be both a major throughway but still run through a commercial strip mall parking lot. Can't have it both ways. But frontage roads and roundabouts and other solutions could be found.

The only thing that solve traffic congestion problems is less traffic. A southern loop would take cars out of the cities of Maryville and Alcoa and put them on a freeway traveling around them. Thus, congestion in Maryville and Alcoa is reduced. It’s not rocket science.

Where are all these people going who need to travel around Maryville and Alcoa? Do they not know about I75 over there?

Anyway, the real solution that you and most other folks don't want to hear is to slow down growth. Maybe even stop it. Maybe even reverse it. What's so bad about that? Now that I'm here, of course.

The notion that we should "solve" our "traffic problems" the same way Atlanta (and Jacksonville and Dothan, Alabama) tried to and failed is the kind of failure of imagination and thinking that too often characterizes how Blount County does things. Once there is a beltway around Maryville and Alcoa, the circle will fill in and then the same people who thought the first one was a good idea (phinney and the people who made money building the road and all the houses) will say we need another one. Meanwhile, the characteristics that make BC attractive and, so far, not entirely "developed," are paved and built over.

The real issue is what kind of a county do we want to be? Bedroom for Oak Ridge? Three Wal-marts? Why not four? Higher property taxes and even more overcrowded schools? Even most of the people who favor the PPE agree that those will be consequences of the PPE and Southern loop but many do not really mind, since there is money to be made and five minutes travel to be saved from Townsend to Knoxville.

If one thinks "progress" looks like what has happened at and near the exits off the Pellissippi in Knox County (Westland, Northshore) and likes that kind of use of land, then I guess one would want that for us. Motion and development are not necessarily "progress," though. Why should we let TDOT and the Chamber of Commerce define what "progress" is? Why should we mess up a quarter of the county so some people can get to Knoxville slightly quicker?

Let's solve what traffic problems we have by focusing on where those problems are. East Broadway too slow? Make center turn lanes and fix the Wildwood Road/Lincoln/Broadway mess. Sevierville Road dangerous? Make shoulders and turn lanes. Hitch Road too slow? Straighten it out. Smart people have already and for years known where the problems are and no one wants to spend local money to fix them. So we leave them and use state and federal money (where do you think THAT comes from?) to build an interstate that will just make those problems more frustrating while making NE BC just like the areas down South near, you guessed it, the new Wal-Mart.

We do not have to become what many of us are here to avoid.

If people want to or must spend all day working in Knoxville, they could move there. There is nothing in the Blount County Policies Plan that says BC strives or wants to be a bedroom community for Knoxville.

phinney claims that: "It is a fact that the Pellissippi expansion...will fix current traffic problems." That is absurd. There is no data that building a north-south road will deal with east-west traffic problems. It is not Washington St. - Hall Road that is the problem in Maryville and Alcoa. Rather, it is east-west routes SR 33 (Broadway and Sevierville Rd.). Hunter Interests growth strategy for Maryville made several sensible recommendations for dealing with east-west congestion by using streets and roads that already exist to make circular traffic flow. People who say "nobody has other ideas than the PPE" are incorrect; check out the Hunter recommendations. Lots of people at the TDOT public meeting also offered alternatives.

TDOT itself recently changed the split where Alcoa Hiway and the 129 By-Pass split by shifting the two lane option from the Hall Rd. side to the 129 side, accurately reflecting their own study that most of the Alcoa Highway traffic southbound is going to the Wal-Marts and west BC, not through Alcoa and Maryville toward the hospital.

What I actually said was that people who live in BC and work in Knoxville COULD, not SHOULD, move.

The point about Hall Road was not to celebrate an exit lane but to say that the change reflected the fact that the traffic is going toward Wal-Mart(s), not Townsend. The "congestion" that seems to annoy a lot of people will not be addressed by the PPE. And according to TDOT, the levels of service on existing roads will NOT be significantly improved by the PPE.

What "congestion," exactly, within Alcoa and Maryville are you referring to, phinney?

In Knoxville they built I-640, I-140, added four lanes to; Middlebrook Pike, Peters Rd, Ceder Bluff, Lovell Rd, Campbell Station, and others. Ask anyone living in southwest Knoxville if the traffic has improv