Mon
Apr 7 2008
05:32:pm

I read a bit about the life of Jeremiha Wright at these links.

(link...)

and

(link...)




Seams to me he speaks truth to power.

Forrest Erickson


Except for the fact that he

Except for the fact that he thinks that the US government inflicted blacks with the AIDS virus and syphilis, our country should be called the US of KKK America, he spews “G** D*** America” from the pulpit, and he hates white people because of slavery, you are right, Forrest, he is a real swell guy.

News flash to the “Christian” minister: No one alive today is feeling the negative ramifications of slavery. Let it go!

Lester

No one alive today ...ramifications of slavery...

Lester (Phinney),

I think we may be closer to agreement than we appear.
Would you say that perhaps Rev. Wright is living in the past?

Forrest Erickson


I think Rev. Wright is angry

I think Rev. Wright is angry with the past. Obviously, the U.S. has not always been in the right. However, this is the best country in the world in which to live.

I believe the Reverend’s anger is misdirected. Our government is “of the people.” And the “people” who make up the government now are not the same “people” who made up the government then under slavery. Therefore, it makes no sense to be angry with this country now because of the slavery that existed then. Black people hurt themselves when they choose to continue their obsession with slavery.

Dr. Joy Leary wrote "Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome: America's Legacy of Enduring Injury and Healing". In her book, she argues that the post traumatic stresses of slavery have caused the downtrodden situation that exists in the black community today. I think that is an insane opinion and I obviously disagree. I think it has something to do with the fact that 70% of all black-children are born out of wedlock. But you cannot make that assertion without being accused of being “judgmental” and “racist”.

I do think it is ironic, however, that the Reverend, who believes he lives in the “U.S. of KKK America” is retiring to a 10,000 square-foot home in a Chicago suburb with a black population of around 2%.

Lester

So if Rev Wright were living in 1789 .....

So if Rev. Wright were living in 1789 when the constitution creating our government was adopted, and which defined slaves as 3/5 of a person for reasons of representation in the government, would he be justified in damming such a government or such a nation just as old testament prophets dammed Israel for sinning?
(link...)

Forrest Erickson

The Reverend is free to

The Reverend is free to condemn anything in history he wishes. My position was that he was out of line calling for God to condemn our country now.

Obviously, slavery was bad; however, the argument is moot since the good Reverend was not living in 1789. Regardless of how wrong the country was then, his anger now is without cause.

Lester

Ah progress. You admit that....

Ah progress. You admit that the country was bad(=wrong) then. The Founders and the very Constitution were FLAWED. You admit that there was room for improvement (and I would say it was a raging need for improvement.)

But was everything just hunky dory in 1966 when the photo of Jeremiah Wright, tending to our president, was taken? There was nothing to get up set about? (Jim Crow never happened? (link...))

It was:

Only 11 years since the supreme court ruled that separate but equal was not equal.

It was only 4 years since a governor of Alabama said in his inauguration,

In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

(link...)

The Tuskegee experiment was still ongoing.
(link...)

One year before state anti miscegenation were struck down.
(link...)

Two years before ML King was to be assassinated.

It would be another 29 years before the Southern Baptists would
" adopt a resolution renouncing its racist roots and apologizing for its past defense of slavery"
(link...)

So that is just OK? Nothing to get upset about? No room for further improvement? Nothing more to be condemed?

Forrest Erickson


Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.

-H. L. Mencken

Progress: I hate that word.

Progress: I hate that word. You say, “Progress;” my brain translates it as, “Liberalism/socialism.”

Remember it was the Republicans that provided the majority vote necessary to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Remember it was the Republicans that provided the majority vote necessary to pass the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

The point is: Who cares? Surely, there is no comparison between slavery and segregated water fountains. And, yes, segregated water fountains were bad. However, that isn’t the way it is now. If someone did you wrong 40 years ago and you still find yourself cursing this nation then you are the one with the problem. The Reverend is an angry bitter old man.

It is different now. Blacks and whites have the same opportunities. But you wouldn’t know that by listening to the media. Ten years ago, MLK day speech was, “We have made great progress regarding racial relations but we still have a long way to go.” This past MLK day speech was, “We have made great progress regarding racial relations but we still have a long way to go.” Ten years from now, the MLK day speech will be, “We have made great progress regarding racial relations but we still have a long way to go.” Fifty years from now, the MLK day speech will be, “We have made great progress regarding racial relations but we still have a long way to go.” Newsflash, folks: We’re there. There will always be some problems with racial relations because we do not live in a colorblind society and there are those on the left who will not let racism die.

On a side note – The Reverend accused the US of inflicting black people with syphilis. That was a lie.

Lester

Please don't embarrass yourself with this one

The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
—President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997

(link...)

You’ve already embarrassed

You’ve already embarrassed yourself with this one.

The government withheld treatment from individuals who already has the disease. (Keep in mind the treatment was experimental anyway – meaning who know if it would work or not). Nonetheless, some people were given a placebo. There is an argument to be made that this was immoral. However, the government did not inflict anyone with the disease. That was the accusation levied by the reverend and that accusation was a lie.

Therefore, I stand behind my previous assertion.

Lester

.... by the reverend and that accusation was a lie.

So when ever anyone is wrong it is a lie?

Your explanation of the events of the Tuskegee experiment is at odds in important ways with the description of the events at: (link...)
Are you embarrassed? Are you wrong? Or are you lying?

I notice that you chose to quibble on the difference between infecting versus withholding a treatment, known to be effective, for over twenty years. You did not address any of the other issues for which "damming" is not enough. Remedial action, in the real world, is the only genuine response.

However, I too can say Jeremiah Wright was wrong.
He was foolish to appeal to the supernatural when it is here in the real world where such appeals should be brought.

Forrest Erickson


Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.

-H. L. Mencken

So when ever anyone is wrong

So when ever anyone is wrong it is a lie?

No.

A lie is something that is not only untrue when you say it; but you know it to be untrue when you say it.

Take the obsession by the democraps that Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction. By definition, Bush did not lie since he believed, when he made the statement, that Iraq did process such weapons. His information was based not only on U.S. intelligence, but also on British intelligence. (British intelligence still stands by their initial findings.) Nonetheless, democraps assume that it makes more since that Bush lied rather than believe that a known terrorist had transported his weapons over to Syria. (That’s why no one takes liberals seriously.)

I have not made any explanation of the events of the Tuskegee experiment except as to say that the government of the United States did not inflict any individual of the black community with the disease. (Although wikipedia is clearly not a scholarly source, I could not find anything in your link that contradicts any points I have made.)

I can call Jeremiah a liar because he knew his statements to be false. He claimed that blacks were inflicted with Syphilis and HIV. This was not true. He knew it to be untrue. Therefore, by definition, it was a lie.

You did not address any of the other issues for which "damming" is not enough.

To what other issues were you hoping for an address?

Lester

On a side note....

It seams that Lester (phinney) holds a double standard.

I'm guilty
Submitted by phinney on Wed, 01/23/2008 - 14:17.

I do get my news from FOX because I just don’t like liberal slant. So, guilty as charged.

I know. Bush lied, people died. Blah, blah, blah.

Lester

Forrest Erickson


Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.

-H. L. Mencken

?

Lester

Apparently

Apparently when Bush and the Bush Cheney administration lies our nation into a war in Iraq, and is guilty of killing thousands of people, that is OK with a "conservative" who says he "don’t mind angering liberals."
But when a man calls on an imaginary, supernatural force to damm (what ever that means)the USA, and havening NO EFFECT WHAT SO EVER, it is a cause for indignation.

Forrest Erickson


Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.

-H. L. Mencken

Perhaps you can reference

Perhaps you can reference this "lie."

Lester

Bush Cheney Misadminstration lies ...

Bush Cheney Misadminstration lies range from the trivial, GWB: "I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice...."

To the appalling.
GWB:

"No one could have conceivably imagined suicide bombers burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly their aircraft--fly US aircraft--into buildings full of innocent people."

When in fact such attacks had been anticipated and GWB had been warned that Bin Ladin was planing to attack the USA and that airplanes were involved.
(link...)

And the very consequential,
Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview March 30, 2003

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

To the pathetic,
Dick Cheney on CNN,

" I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."

and
GWB,

"I'm spending less than Bill Clinton."

So if these are not really lies, are Bush / Cheney simply that incompetent?

Forrest Erickson


Morality is doing right, no matter what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.

-H. L. Mencken

If Barack were a Muslim

If Barack is a Muslim, what was he doing in Reverend Wright's Christian Church? Aha, I know. Wright's Church is actually a Mosque in disguise, right, Right-Wing?

Sure am glad weez a fightin' 'em over there, 'stead of fightin' 'em over here. Hu uh hu hu. Stayin' the course, by Gawd. Git ready for dem there Gay Illegal Immigrants to start stealin' your guns, 'n burnin' Amerkun Flags jest before November! Sucked in yet, Righty?

viva Evo Morales

Forrest has a point worth remembering

For someone the age of Reverend Wright, and for that matter for someone MY age, race discrimination is NOT ancient history - it happened DURING OUR LIFETIME! Think about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The Voting Rights Act of 1965. The Civil Rights Act of 1968. How many of the readers here remember 1964? Or 1968? It sounds shocking when you think about it this way, doesn't it - *within our lifetime* many of our citizens were not able to just walk into a restaurant and be served, even if they had the money to pay, just because of the color of their skin. *Within our lifetime* schools were segregated, and education was NOT equal. Not in 1789, the date Phinney used above, or in 1865, when the 13th amendment was ratified - but *within living memory*. For many people, these aren't just dry dusty facts in history books - this was the reality they had to live in.

AHS 1968

I remember in vivid detail clamouring to the center aisle of the School Bus, which had picked us up early from the Elementary School, as we stopped at AHS to pick up riders. There were chainsaws screaming in the parking lot, fights, belt buckles & chains being smashed against the Bus windows. It was frightening to a 6 year old, and I can't imagine the environment within the High School's walls.

viva Evo Morales

The Beauty of Grey

Thanks for the black Sean Hannity. What does Rush have to say about the white?

As we can see in your world, there is no grey. Only absolutes. We are either with you, or we're against you. Right?

Rev. Wright has said things most Americans, including this one, find repulsive. But at least he is honest to his congregation. Can we say the same for the litany of "Christian" leaders in the past decades? Swaggert, Baker, Falwell and the boys making you proud? How about the reverend Ted? (link...)

Like good manners, tolerance, acceptance, a willingness to reach out - some things just aren't meant for you Lester.

The pro-Jeremiah Wright

The pro-Jeremiah Wright argument is that he is basically a good guy with some of his comments being taken out of context. Of course, that begs the question, what is the proper context of brother Jeremiah's yelling of “GD America” from behind the pulpit.

The same dopey argument can be made that Hitler did a lot of good prior to murdering all those Jews. It’s insane.

The topic of Jeremiah Wright is important because it reveals the character of a man after which Obama is molding his own charcter.

What you no-church libs don’t understand is that the relationship between a pastor and his congregants is closer than that of a mere acquaintance. He is considered a close friend. You are judged by the company you keep and Preacher Wright is the company Obama chooses to keep.

You guys aren’t really considering voting for Barack Hussein Obama are you? Then again, who is your alternative: Monica Lewinsky’s ex-boyfriend’s wife?

Glad I’m not a lib.

Lester

Adios!

You are judged by the company you keep

Then why are you always on a progressive site talking with a bunch of "libs"?

I hope others will to continue to engage you here because hearing you speak must have been what it was like to watch the dinosaurs die off - there is a curiosity of how certain species go extinct. But I'm done with you. If it's hate that gets you into your heaven - kiss one of your 72 virgins for me.

Hasta luego!

Then why are you always on a progressive site talking with a bunch of "libs"?

To learn and understand the opposing point of view.

Obviously, one needs to consider both sides of an issue before making an informed and intelligent decision. Liberalism has helped to strengthen my own conservative view points. Granted, much of your outlook on life is derived from upbringing; however, upbringing provides mostly the “what” of your viewpoints. Liberalism, for me, has helped answer the “why”. I enjoy visiting “progressive” sites (read liberal) and conversing with liberals because they force me to defend my own positions.

Contrary to popular belief, I do not intend to be a “troll”. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind angering liberals. However, if, while learning from the opposition, I tick off a couple of libs; well, that’s just gravy.

Lester

Shouldn't Obama get some Phinney Brownie points?

After all, you can't call him a "no-church lib."

"Men are equal; it is not birth but virtue that makes the difference." --Voltaire

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